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JUNE 2002


Jamaa at al_Muslimeen ofUWS Bankstown present: Homosexuality An Islamic, scientific, and logical analysis.

Recent requests from members of the Muslim community, and Muslim health professionals have wanted to know about homosexuality from an Islamic and scientific perspective.

It is urged that the Muslim youth, uni students, parents, and Islamic educators attend such a lecture.

Speaker 1: Keysar Trad, Vice President of the LMA, Has translated 6 Islamic books and has written a^"Islam. For Your Informationan"

Speaker 2: Hanan Dover, Postgraduate Psychology Student, Teaches Psychology at UWS

Question time will include the Speakers as well as Sheikh Shadi

Date: Friday 28fh of June
Time: 6.30pm SHARP (Salat Isha then starting lecture)
Finish: 9.30pm

Where: University of Western Sydney - Bankstown campus Bullecourt Ave, Milperra

28 JUNE 2002

text of UWS Jemaah talk: "Islam & Homosexuality, an Islamic, scientific and logical approach"
28th June 2002
"Islam & Homosexuality, an Islamic, Scientific and Logical Approach"

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Hanan Dover,
Lecturer in psychology, University of Western Sydney (suspended)

Keysar Trad,
Spokesperson, Lebanese Muslim Association, Sydney


Hanan Dover:

Bismilla alrahman arahim
Alhamdulahi rabul alameen

Assalata wa salam ala ashraf ala nabiya wa al moorsaleen

Salam Alaykoom brothers and Sisters,

And I do welcome non-Muslims and pro-gay representatives who are wanting to hear Islam's view of homosexual behaviour, but I will also talk about homosexuality in light of scientific evidence, and then what we as a Muslim community need to do to address the increasing prevalence of Muslims who are 'choosing' to practice homosexuality or are struggling with it.

Before I start, a show of hands that agree that:

Homosexuality is haram within Islam?

- surprisingly, in a study I did last year, 30% of Muslims from a sample of about 82 Muslims did not know if homosexuality was immoral or even thought it was OK. This I think is the result of a few things, too much Big Brother, Neighbours, Home and Away and Sex and the City, the public school's unIslamic influence, and not enough education from the parents or individual reading of Islam.

Tonight's topic of homosexuality in Islam, is not taboo.

Anyone who thinks it is should re-read their scriptures as the Prophet (saw) did say 'lay haya fi din' There is no shyness in religion. A 10 year old can pick up the Quran and read the Story of Prophet Lut and his struggle with the homosexual population and there are hadiths on the issue.

The taboo about discussing this topic only comes from culture and not religion. And religion should be given precedence over culture when they contradict one another. As one set of rules is Divine and the other is man-made.

So, why is a Muslimah talking about this issue in front of a Muslim audience, the answer to this shall develop on its own during the end of the talk, Inshallah.


So, what do Islamic Scriptures say about homosexuality:
5 references to homosexual behaviour in the Quran, but 2 of them are most explicit:

Lot said to his people, "You commit such an abomination; no one in the world has done it before! You practice sex with the men, instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people." [7:80-81]

"Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? You forsake the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are transgressing people." [26:165-166]

Hence, just from these verses we can deduce that Islam forbids any sexual relationship other than between man and woman, and even then, it must be within a marriage. In a hadith, Abu Hurairah (ra) reported Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said:

'Four types of people awake under Allah's anger and go to bed under Allah's displeasure.' Those who were listening asked: Who are they, Messenger of Allah?' He replied: 'Men who imitate women, women who imitate men, those who have sex with animals, and men who have sex with men.'

Another hadith:

Narrated AbuSaid al-Khudri: The Prophet (saw) said: 'A man should not look at the private parts of a man, and a woman should not look at the provate parts of another woman. A man should not lie with another man without wearing lowe garment under one cover; and a woman should not lie with another woman without wearing lower garment under one cover' [Abu Dawood].

The concept of sexuality cannot be taken away from the underlying principles of Islam, where the sexual function is in itself a sacred one, expressing the will and the power of God.

The acceptance of one's God-given sex is a form of surrender to God or sumission to Allah. The unity and harmony intended by God is constituted by the union of a man and a women in a lawful sexual act within marriage. Any other way of seeking or acting out a sexual desire violates the order of the world and is condemned as a source of evil and anarchy.

So, zina or adultery is condemned because it goes against the harmonious complementarity of the sexes outside the divinely commanded limits. On the other hand, Liwat, or homosexuality, is condemned because it involves the rebellious rejection of the harmonious complementarity of the sexes which Allah (swt) has given.

Both these acts involve intentional actions which go against Allah's (swt) law. Thus, from an Islamic point of view, it makes no sense to say one has been 'created homosexual' than it does to say one has been 'created adulterous'. While most who practice homosexuality argue that they were created that way and they have no choice in the matter, a notion that is still disputed in the scientific world, this argument still would change what is clearly explained in the Quran.

There is no changing the Quran. The Quran is a perfect guide for humanity. Human law nor science is above Allah (swt). Islam teaches that if people have sinful desires they should keep it to themselves and control them in order to avoid doing what is haram or forbidden. So, having sinful desires are not punishable unless you act on them. You are not judged by you feelings but actions or behaviour. You can have the propensity, inclination, or tendency to be attracted to the same-sex, but it does not necessarily mean you have to act on them.

We all have the tendency to become violent, jealous, evil, and anger, but this does not necessarily mean we have to act on them. Islam has recognized the tendency for people to be attracted to the same-sex through the Whisperings of Shaytan, and that is why through Allah's Wisdom the Quran and Sunnah are listed with preventative measures so we are not be prone to acting on these desires. And this brings into light the difference between what homosexuality means in Islam and what homosexuality means is in the modern world.

Now the view of the West or modern secular society is that both the terms homosexuality and homosexual orientation exist but these differ greatly with Islam. Firstly, there is no such concept of homosexuality in Islam. An Arabic word which describes homosexuality is liwat which refers to 'the doing of Lut's people'. Thus, it implies an activity, a behaviour, not a thought or feeling, it's an active behaviour. So Islam views sodomy as behaviour only, and not thinking about the behaviour. So, you are not a homosexual or a luti because you think of same-sex attraction, but you when you act on these fantasies, you then become a luti or homosexual in Islamic terms.

In contrast, the western concept of homosexuality and homosexual orientation includes both behaviour and feelings.

1) Homosexuality is defined by western researchers not in terms of behaviour but in terms of sexual orientation or sexual preference. Hence, a homosexual person is one who 'experiences emotional and/or physical attraction' towards people of the same sex. This definition is supposed to be a universal one.

2) Homosexuality and heterosexuality are on opposite ends of the spectrum and that both sexualities are natural and normal. So, having a homosexual lifestyle is just as valid as a heterosexual one.

3) A person is not a homosexual by choice, since homosexual orientation is possibly linked to biological or genetic influences.

Hence, homosexuals are gay by destiny and not by choice. And because they are born that way, they should not be morally judged because they are just as normal of a heterosexual person. And because there is no such thing in Islam of a fixed inclination, or fixed genetic predisposition, there is always the possibility that a person's behaviour might change, for example through a conscious choice to obey God's commandments.

So, it can be pointed out that both the terms homosexuality and homosexual orientation make no sense in Islam, except where it has been imported by the West. There is no notion of exclusive homosexuality and no gay way of life. The concept of sexuality cannot be taken away from the underlying principles of Islam, where the sexual function is in itself a sacred one, expressing the will and the power of god.

There is Wisdom in Allah's rulings and they do not change and He only gives us these restrictions for the benefit of humanity. So, it should be crystal clear even literally clear that Islam forbids homosexual behaviour.

If we turn to science now and homosexuality, you will be shocked with the results.


When I refer to homosexuality, I am talking about male homosexuality, primarily because lesbianism, which is strongly agreed by researchers is more a product of society or the environment than it is anything to do with biology or genetics. So, really, women are behaving in this unnatural manner just for the thrill of it, because there is nothing in science that can possibly explain away their behaviour.

Homosexuality is a social dilemma because the homosexual lifestyle is ever-increasing, but it really only increased and became so public and 'normal' resulting from the deception of scientific researchers and a political and emotional push by pro-Gay groups.

I will present 2 major scientific studies that had an impact in the study of homosexuality and their effects on changing the minds of researchers, psychologists, psychiatrists, and counsellors, governments, media, educational institutions.


Let me first stress that science itself cannot be deceptive. Why? Science is neutral, it is amoral. It does not support not does it hurt religion. Science is fact but does not explain all the knowledge that is beyond science, such as spirituality and metaphysics.

The deception is not with science but with scientific researchers. It is their assumptions or their reasoning or toying with science to support their own prejudices or biases that is deceptive.

In the debate over homosexuality, the data supporting a genetic basis are all scientifically weak. In 1991 a small, a study published by a Gay Activist Simon LeVay caused mass hysteria by hypothesizing, with supporting data, that gay men have a smaller nucleus of the part of the brain called - hypothalamus - than straight men. All the homosexual brains that he studied were of men who died of complications due to AIDS. Heterosexual or straight men had a bigger part of the brain than did homosexual men. And even more surprisingly is the fact that the homosexual men turned out to have the same sized nucleus in the brain as women.

So because they had different nucleus sizes in the brain, this makes them homosexual, so they then were born that way, it is biological and ra ra ra. He went on so many shows like those Oprah shows, news, a current affairs, documentaries - claiming he may have found something in the brain that made him a homosexual. So, the public was bombarded with genetic and biological claims to homosexuality.

But the real scientist knows, that his results were not clear-cut and does not suggest anything specific. There were major flaws in his research.

Firstly, the dead brains he used in his research of homosexuals died from AIDS, so that their brain may have deteriorated because of their medical condition. And most importantly, it may have been the homosexual behaviour or activity that made that particular area of the brain a smaller size, not that they were that size to start up with.

So, 'normal' straight men would have a bigger nucleus in the hypothalamus part of the brain because they are masculine and act masculine and behave like real men should. And homosexuals, on the other hand, are acting maybe more feminine and less masculine, and that is the reason why homosexual men may have the same sized nucleus in the hypothalamus as females. Because they are behaving non-masculine, they are not activating the masculine part of the brain for it to enlarge.

What I am trying to point out is that certain behaviours and conditions can make the brain increase and decrease under certain conditions. This study caused a lot of misinterpretations by the media, the media knows nothing about science, but want to broadcast interesting and exciting news, and with a little help from Gay Activists, they will get the false message across that homosexuality is biological, and hence normal.

There were a lot of studies conducted trying to find biological causes to homosexuality, but none were more popular or even more dangerous than Dean Hamer's research in 1993, who claimed to have finally found the 'gay gene'. Hamer found a possible genetic marker on chromosome branch X28 in 40 brothers who were both homosexual. Research seemed to be on the verge of proving that homosexuality is innate, genetic and therefore unchangeable, a normal variant of human nature. The vast majority of readers were urged to believe that homosexuals had been proven to be "born that way." Gays rejoiced at a breakthrough that explained why they were gay. So, by then, psychologists finally had to come to accept homosexuality as genetic and it was unethical to try to make homosexuals into heterosexuals or straight people because this would be biologically impossible.

The skilful deception by scientists is when they try and get their research published in psychology journals so that they can reach their target audience, psychologists, to rethink how they deal with people. Psychologists are the key in trying to normalise behaviour, so if you want to prove criminal activity, violence, promiscuity, homosexuality, drug addiction is genetic, perform the scientific study and publish it in psychology journals.

Two years after this study, we have a crash landing. The gay gene was exposed by a team of clinical neurologists in the U.S. Their study used more participants and used better scientific methods as Hamer, and the clinical team "found no evidence of linkage of the gay gene".

So, no evidence was found for a gay gene. So the gay gene theory is all but dead.

How many people in the audience have heard anyone suggest that homosexuality is genetic?

But it did not die aloud. Nobody will know of these studies unless they are looking for it in a research journal. I was looking for this information because I am interested in the whole area of biology and homosexuality, but does the media bother to broadcast this finding that there is no gay gene. No, because, everyone and some Christian Churches have accepted homosexuality as biological, therefore natural. There is no need to transform the minds of the people, their agenda has been fulfilled.

Anyone, therapists, psychologist or psychiatrist who attempts to suggest that homosexuality is not biologically determined, but a choice and can be changed, is up for career suicide as Gay groups get up in uproar and try to silence them using political measures. If you want to say homosexuality is a sin or immoral, like in Australia some reverends have spoken against homosexuals, Gay groups defame the person by putting obscene people or make obscene images of the person and place them on a Mardi Gras floats for public humiliation. They think we must progress in accepting alternative lifestyles, they think that morals must change at the same pace of technology. While new technology is good for society, new morality brings nothing to the society but chaos!

But why were people so ready to believe in this piece of genetic determinism, which now turns out to be a biological fiction, in the first place? The birth and death of the gay gene tells us a great deal about researchers own prejudices and how they perceive science.

People often react strongly against religious fundamentalism, but people generally seem ready to swallow all varieties of scientific fundamentalism.

Consider how we treat two kinds of truth claims. If someone claims that homosexuality is a sin to be punished by death because it says so in the Bible, Torah, or Quran which is the word of God, most of us (rightly) react with horror. We tend to see such a person as a religious nut or extremist who needs psychological help than convincing.

If, on the other hand, someone claims that homosexuality is a genetically determined trait, caused by a particular sequence in the DNA, we tend to think of this as a reasonably rational claim to truth. Even if we disagree with such a position, we nonetheless view the person adopting it as someone who needs convincing rather than a straitjacket. If scientists today said they looking for a 'terrorist gene', everyone will probably believe them, because they are scientists and scientists hold the knowledge of truth. Why is there such a difference in reasoning styles between the religious and scientists? Because we are conditioned to believe that any statement that sounds scientific, however ill-founded or harmful, should be respected and given the benefit of the doubt. After all, if it is based on experiments and mathematical deduction, it can't be all wrong, can it? So those who make such statements are entitled to a respectful hearing.

Let me stress strongly that science is not evil, but it is possible for scientists to delude themselves that they are producing scientific facts when they are only confirming their own prejudices. Later, to his fellow scientists honestly acknowledged the limitations of his research. Dean Hamer, the supposed founder of the Gay Gene has said that stated along the lines that homosexuality is not inherited and is not rooted essentially in biology. LeVay, the researcher who studies the gay brains also acknowledges that he hasn't found a brain centre for homosexuality. Researchers have played the game of biology, unfairly, and won to win over psychiatrists and psychologists, even though they still lost to science.

In the end, homosexuality, was never and will never be found to be genetic, and all the hype researchers initially had in trying to find the 'gay gene', has ceased.

It used to be common for people who commit wrongdoings or sins that they would say that 'the devil made me do it', in other words that they had no control over their actions as they were encouraged by devils and satan to perform such sinful behaviour.

Nowadays, with the new sophisticated genetic and biological knowledge, we now have a new Satan, our genes. Nowadays we say, 'my genes made me do it.'

I can imagine them screening for a terrorist gene using a checklist:

Q1 What is your religious affiliation? Muslim

Q2 What is your ethnic background Both my parents are Palestinian -double whammy, by then ASIO will be at the door

Q3 Do you have a pilots licence A No, but my brother has one and he can land the plane By then they will take me to Camp X-ray in S. America.

There is now research implying that we have aggressive genes, alcoholic genes, drug addiction genes, and adultery genes. So, whatever, our genes program us to do, we do. Hence, all our behaviour, whether moral immoral can be traced down to minute, microscopic genes. Think about it brothers and sisters, if there was an alcoholic gene that exists, why is it that most Muslims do not drink, is it because we do not have the genes for alcoholism, or because of a conscious choice due to religion not to drink. It is the conscious choice, or rational thinking of a person that gives rise free-will. Freedom to chose between right and wrong. We chose not to practice homosexuality, we chose not to drink or commit incest because our religion tells us not to, and we are not at the mercy of our genes, but to the mercy of Allah (swt).

Even if, certain behaviours were found to be genetic, does not condemn us to be slaves to those genes. Our genes do not dictate who we are, and what we do, but through thought and reflection we decide how we go about our life.

Pro-Gay groups would probably want to call me a Homophobe, you know like homophobia. But I am no more a homophobe than they are a Islamaphobe.

Homophobia is a frequently used term used by homosexuals or homosexual supporters to label people who are against homosexuality. Then you will get the argument if you oppose homosexual behaviour that your are homophobic. Phobia is a clinical word that means an irrational fear. You know when some people see a spider, their blood pressure rises, their heart beats faster, and they panic, that's a phobia. How many of us on coming in contact with a homosexual, did u experience these inner physiological reactions because you see them. None. As we as Muslims do not have an irrational fear of them, but just simply disagree with the behaviour the act. If they say, that you are homophobic, say they ate Islamophobic because they would disagree with Islam and its teachings and the behaviour of Muslims. If you ask them if they have an irrational fear where they panic when they see us and they say 'no'. We just don't like what u practice, argue with them and say that then it is not a phobia but a disagreement with behaviour.

So, here's my question, how many people when they see a homosexual start sweating, panic and can't go on with life in fear of that person. No-one.

So how do they take on board this psychological term of phobia to explain people who just disagree with their behaviour.


This is such a contradiction. Islam is Submission to Allah and a muslim is one who submits to Allah, not one who submits to their whims and desires. And using the term Gay Muslim is trying to equate sexual identity with religious identity. You cant have these separate identities as when you are Muslim, the sexual practice can only be heterosexual. I have never read a hadith where the Prophet (saw) explained the way of life of a homosexual couple.

The religious identity must reign supreme over the sexual identity and not even equal to, as the sexual identity is only part of the whole and not vice versa. You don't try and fit Islam with sexuality but your sexuality must fit under the umbrella of Islam. Being sexual does not make you religious BUT your religious identity, your fitrah, GUIDES your sexuality.

The terms Gay Muslim are total opposites. The same for other religions, you cant be a Gay Christian or a Gay Jew as in their true scriptures, its immoral and they cant co-exist on equal footing.

Muslims have never needed a sexual identity like hetero-Muslim. So bro what is your background? Oh I am a Lebanese Gay Muslim. And he says, what are you? I am an Australian Straight Muslim. This is absurd walla. Has a sexual identity been introduced as an abridged form of Islam. Can you be a Muslim thief, or a Muslim paedophile, or a Muslim rapist? No, as you cannot attach what is inherently sinful in Islam to the religious identity as it goes against what a Muslim is. You can call yourself a Muslim psychologist, a Muslim doctor or a Muslim teacher as these can all co-exist as long as they adhere to Islamic principles, but homosexuality does not. Can you be a promiscuous Muslim?

Proud people who practice homosexuality and call themselves Muslim undergo this constant struggle of questioning their forbidden behaviour. There is a constant struggle where his nafs or ego is being pushed and pulled from the spiritual side to the physical side, until the physical senses win over him. Their behaviour is at war with their spirit.

Everyone has a soul and a jin, and the jin is pleased as long as you stay confused and disobey Allah's commands, as that is his role. All the while, your soul is suffering immensely. How many of us in the audience struggle with their sexual identity. How many of us ask day after day, salat after salat, ask why were we created heterosexual or straight? I doubt most of us question that because we are content with these feelings that are natural and we KNOW they are natural because Allah tells us so.

In Surah Ar-Rum :

"And among His signs is that he created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find comfort in them, and He has placed between you affection and mercy." [30:21]

The reason Muslims question homosexual tendencies is because they know deep down inside its haram, and their conscience is eating them away. Like murders who kill an inncocent person, and keep hiding this fact until their conscience gets the better of them and they turn themselves in. They cannot escape it.

Faith or iman as the seed and the fruits that the tree bears are the behaviours that stem from the eman. Homosexuals say they have eman and they even pray 5 times a day, fast, make hajj and give charity..but you cannot expect Allah (swt) to cover His eyes while you are performing sinful sexual relations and only observe righteous deeds. So what kind of fruits are your fruits bearing? Hence, it makes no sense, to practice homosexuality and pray, make zakat, fast Ramadan.

Faith should prevent people from indulging in forbidden behaviour, for man, through the actions that he does, obeys the dictates of his beliefs and is controlled by their commands. That is why Muhammed (saw) states: "No adulterer commits adultery while in a state of faith; no thief commits a theft while in a state of faith; and no one sips wine while in a state of faith". Hence, true faith would prohibit a person who adhered to their faith from performing actions that is contradictory to its teachings, or refuse to obey it commandments.

You cannot make compromises or half-measures in your life when it comes to Islam. There are in-betweens. The choice is between right and wrong, guidance and confusion, and order and chaos, Islam and unbelief, and the way of God or the way of Satan. ..

Hands up those who have heard of Al-Fatiha Group based in the US? Hands up who know that the Al-Fatiha Group marched in this years' Sydney's Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras. Hand's up those who don't know what I am talking about and do not know who Al-Fatiha are?

Al-Fatiha is an Muslim organization for those Muslims who identify themselves as Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transexual, and the Transgendered people who think Islam permits all these behaviours, sex changes, the confused he shes and the she hes as permissible, and that Allah created them that way..and that Allah loves them. And in South Africa, they are called Al-Fitrah..

I think they should be called Al-Kuffara as they have adopted two beautiful Islamic words and polluted these terms to their advantage and are guided more rightly by their low sexual desires than anything spiritual or remotely intellectual.

These people fast, pray 5 times a day. Started with Faisal Alam (the President of Al-Fatiha). Funded by zionists. They are sitting in their secretive little places that you can only get in with a security card from fear. No Sheikh has accepted them as an Islamic organization.

The irony is, in Surah Al-Fatiha, which they used to name their group, verse 6, 'Ih dina siratil mustaqeem', is translated into 'Show us The Straight Way'. The Straight way, not the Queer way, this is why they don't think. If you look at the Al-Fatiha website and read why they think Islam should permit homosexuality, it makes no sense and their reasoning is illogical and secular and they cant even interpret the Quran and Hadith correctly. None of the members are Islamic scholars guided by intellect but by sexual desires.

Its like they are intensely desperate to get some confirmation that what they are doing is right in Islam.but this support is never forthcoming as they have been cursed by Muslim Sheikhs. They look for loopholes within the Islamic teachings to try and promote themselves as acceptable within Islam.


Everyone has read books on How to be a good Muslimah or Muslim. Or How to be a Muslim wife, rarely do we see books on how to be a Muslim husband but there is a new 'How to be a Muslim' guide on the Web Its called How to be a Muslim Homosexual. If ever I read such unintelligent rubbish that is loaded with emotional and illogical reasoning it would have to be this article. This guy cannot accept any restriction imposed on him sexually, and yet calls himself Muslim. What's worse, he says he is a convert from Christian to Islam as Islam accepts homosexuality.

The essential problem with people like the members of Al-Fatiha and other Muslims who support people like that (and there are plenty in Sydney), is that they confuse between 'FEELINGS' and 'KNOWING'. Homosexuals 'feel' they were born that way and that the common statement they give. And no-one can argue with that because it is a subjective feeling. If I say I feel Palestinian and I feel Australian, no-one can debate that either because it's a subjective feeling. But while I feel Aussie and Palestinian, I KNOW I AM MUSLIM.

If you feel Muslim, that is blind faith, as you must Know that your are Muslim. You cant have faith without reason in Islam.

So how do you know you are a Muslim?

I can use any field on investigation whether science, history, astronomy, and KNOW I am Muslim.

But what method of investigation, can a homosexual use to justify their sense of KNOWING? They cant, science hasn't helped them much and that is what they wanted.

So How Do They Know, how can they prove to us through conviction and knowing that homosexuality is OK. But instead they insist they feel.

I will tell you all something that is scary. I have come across counsellors who work in our area who say they are Muslim but you then wander when you talk to them. They told me that Islam should move on and accept homosexual behaviour. One told me well 'what can we do if they were born that way?' I asked her for proof of that as I know there is no proof in science, and then she says, well if they are consenting adults, there is no harm done on anyone and then it is permissible. I then asked, OK for arguments sake, if you believe its OK to practice homosexuality as long as they are consenting adults, then you must allow for pre-marital sex in Islam. She was silent. She then went on to say that my reality of Allah is different to their reality of Allah. I was like, since when were we appointed Islamic scholars and we can re-interpret Islamic teachings and permit what is haram and making it halal.

This is an outright abuse of responsibility, as Muslims are going to these Muslim? counsellors thinking that they will give them Islamic guidance when in fact, these counsellors put them in more harm with their secular positions.

Remember this, Consenting Adults also need God's Consent. Homosexuals, those who commit 'consensual incest', sex outside marriage, beastiality behaviour do not have God's consent, regardless of age. Another said to me, Islam should progress.......

But Islam is progression. In actual fact when we start viewing homosexuality and other sexual promiscuity as acceptable, we are regressing to the time of Sodom and Gomarroh, the People of Lut, what sort of progression are they talking about!

The answer to this is simple, they are guided by feelings and emotion. Having clients come to you and say they feel that Allah created them homosexual and they don't like being that way but they cant help themselves being attracted to the same sex and you hear their struggle, pain, depression, has led the counsellor to feel sorry for these people and re-evaluate the din to say that Islam should progress and accept these Muslims and their behaviour. They tell them don't worry, Allah still loves you as he loves all his Creation. But if Allah loves homosexuals, he will also loves thieves, murderers, liars, hypocrites, criminals, etc. are then not all His Creation? How can Allah accept a behaviour that he has told us is not permissible? Did Allah make a mistake and say that homosexuality is haram for about 1400 hundred years and when humans are ready, they can start disobeying my Laws, being a progressive civilisation, and I will start accepting all evils...c'mon

This is where we fall as Muslims when we start making decisions based on emotional reasoning and we forget that we as humans are weak, when a counsellor says to a Muslim client that its OK to be gay and a practicing Muslim, are we Sheikhs to say this. No Sheikh has accepted homosexuality as normal, acceptable, or permissible, so who are we to question Islamic scriptures using emotion.

So, if so many youths start coming to us and say that I feel like sleeping with this person but I am too young to get married but its killing me not sleeping with this person because I love him or her. Do we then permit pre-marital sex on the basis of that one particular individual or even 1000 similar cases. Do we change the teachings of Islam because they society we live in permit homosexuality, pre-merital sex, beastilaity, orgies, bisexuality, nudity. Is this what they mean by progressive Islam or secular Islam?

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful" [Surah 4, Ayah 16]

So we have established by using Islam, Science, and Rationality that homosexual behaviour is not permissible. What do we do to help the Muslims who are struggling with these tendencies or want to stop the homosexual practice? You know, if we do nothing as a community, the problem will just increase until we a re-enactment of Sodom and Gomarrah, the People of Lut all over again. The more we walk in the streets of Lakemba and wont think of helping people outside this area, the more our Ummahs problem will ever increase. We have the non-Muslims doing our responsibility. We have left the counselling and therapy to people that when they talk to us, its like an alien culture. Why? Because we know Islam will only be the solution to help us out of a hole, but there are no Muslims talking to them, so they sink deeper into that hole and it is our fault. Yep. Its our fault alright because you can all argue that they got themselves into trouble by fist taking drugs, becoming homosexuals, drinking alcohol of having sexual relationships, but when they are aware that what they are doing is detrimental and want to come back to the faith, where are we aiding them? Where are our hands reaching out when they are in need of a pull.

We have Islamic lessons for brothers and sisters and give dawa to the 'good people' and we judge 'who is worthy of Islam' so we give them the message. Who are we to judge, who made us Hakim . The message of Islam is for all humanity, not the 'good people' only. Who is to say that the so-called 'bad people' will not take hold of Islam better then me and you?

Look at Yusuf Islam, Sex Drugs and Rock n Roll, turned mashallah good Muslim. Who would think that a personality like him, would chose Islam? Who is to say that a Muslim who enjoins in haram behaviour won't go back to his faith and strives to please Allah, will not be better than the person who never committed a major sin? No-one knows.

That's my point, we do not know. Our job is to offer the service and guide them and leave judgment for Allah (swt). Who are we to choose who is deserving of Islam?

Islam is a message for humanity.

Let us help ourselves, our brothers and sisters and stop judging one another on who is deserving or not deserving and leave that to the Ultimate Judge Rabil Alameen.

The Muslims have gone underground. And going underground is the worst way to go. And the worst thing is that Muslims have gone underground because there is no other place to go. Subhanallah, they refuse to go to unIslamic counseling because they don't feel comfortable, and they don't trust them. And even I they go to unIslamic organizations for help, they feel as if they are talking a different language because of its non-religion emphasis. These troubled Muslims are screaming for Islam and desperate for Islamic help and we in return SHAME them as a community, turn our backs on them, we pretend they don't exist. And if they end up at Gay Counselors, the Muslims would walk in feeling confused and then after enough sexual brain washing they will confidently come out and say 'I a Gay'. They are like recruitment agencies, recruiting people to be like them.

Where is the Islamic equivalent to Barnados, the Salvation Army, Mission Australia. Where are these organizations that 'Reach out' to Muslims on the streets, or in the dark alleys or at public places. Prophet sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam was reported to have said in a hadeeth, as narrated by Abu-Moosa, may Allaah be pleased with him: "The example of the unity of the Muslims is like the example of a single structure, its parts strengthening and supporting one another" [Bukhaari & Muslim]

Our structure as a community is weak. The problem is we leave our Ummahs issues to be solved by non-Muslim organizations and we go about our lives as if nothing is going wrong. We walk down Haldon St and buy our meat from the Halal butchery, attend and Islamic lesson, maybe buy an Islamic book and we go home. And we say, Alhamdullilah, today I saw my community and I am at peace. And then we go home, turn on the TV and watch Big Brother. You know today ,we are more worried about who is getting evicted from Big Brother than we are about helping the Ummah in need an Ummah in crisis. Our struggling community are addicted on drugs in Cabramatta and Bankstown. And Bankstown is a drugs swimming pool for Muslims The Muslim females are selling their bodies to pay for their drug addiction, the Muslim men who take up drugs by the 3rd month are most likely to get Hep C which is an irreversible disease. He will give this to his wife, who then gives it to her child through pregnancy. Why? Because he reuses or shares the needles he takes drugs from because he is so ashamed that he is addicted, we do not give them advice. They are not educated with the harms of the repercussions of what happens to them if they at least reduce the harm to themselves and consequently their families.

You may say to yourself, well he took up drugs, let him suffer the consequences of his actions? OK, so then what is it his wife and innocent baby's crime in getting Hep C and HIV. Do we condemn his whole family just because we wont get out onto the Streets and educate and help these people? Or the woman who is selling her body and neglecting her kids just to be able to feed her cravings that would ease her addiction pain and so that she can somewhat be there for her kids? They feel shame, guilt, and loneliness and feel so low that they just wish they knew how to get out of their misery. They know that they want to meet Allah free of sin but while they are hesitant to reach out because they feel ashamed, we do not even offer them a rope to get out of that hole. Tha is what they need HOPE.

So many health professionals cannot help muslims because they think differently. Muslims know of Iman and know of Islam, and when they are in need, they need Islam, not modern secular theories that separate the person from their religion. Muslims live and breathe their religion and Muslims when they go to non-Muslim therapy, its like going to MARS or another culture altogether. It does not fit well with Muslims. And this is not coming from me, but from Health and Drug professionals. At the moment I am working with Sheikh Shadi in order to try and marry Islam and psychological therapy. Even if they went to a Sheikh, they can only get to the heart of the Muslim and tell them to be patient with their struggles, turn to Allah and repent, and ask Allah for help but the Sheikh cannot offer the therapy, his skills are right at the heart of the person and this is where a marriage between Islam and Psychology or Islam and Counselling comes into place. Change happens through process.

Sometimes people think that if they pray enough or wish hard enough, their homosexuality will just disappear. This is an unrealistic expectation. Changes in the area of sexual orientation happen as a result of a process which usually involves some hard personal work.

Imagine wanting a vegetable garden. You could pray for years that God would make vegetables grow in your backyard. When nothing happens, you might even decide to be angry at God for not hearing your prayers. However, the reality is that while God can make vegetables grow, we must prepare the soil, plant the seeds, water and weed, and do other work. This gives the best chance that there will be an abundance of vegetables to harvest. In the same way, individuals who want to experience changes in their sexuality must do a lot of work as part of the process. God certainly does His work, and by His Spirit accomplishes things which we cannot do ourselves, but we need to prepare the space in our lives and cooperate with what God wants to do.

Allahuma thabit ooqulana, wa yahdi naffosoona Warshudna illal haq Wa Ihdinas siratal mustaqeem.

May Allah make firm our minds, and guide our souls, and guide us to the Truth and Show us the Straight way, and keep us away from the Queer path.

Keysar Trad

The Hadith is clear about the punishment for homosexuality, the Hadith says; kill the one who is penetrating and the one who is being penetrated. Both are guilty of capital crimes. Two of the rightly guided Caliphs used to bum to death the homosexuals who are caught in the act, the Sahaby Ibn Abbas ruled that they should be pushed from the highest building or mountain (whichever is higher) and then stoned to death. At the very least, they would be stoned to death.

Refer to the following hadith in this regard:

"Whomsoever you find doing the deed of the people ofLiit, kill the doer and the one to whom it is being done." Narrated by Abu Dawood, Tirmizy, Nasai, and Ibn Majah on the authority ofTkrima from Ibn Abbas.

Shafi, Qasem Ibn Ibrahim, and Annaser ruled that the punishment is death even if the persons involved are unmarried.

Abi Bakr, the first Khalifa burned homosexuals during his Khilafa, as did Alt, Abdullah Bin Azzubair and Hisham Bin Abdul Malek. Umar and Uthman ruled that the perpetrators must be stoned to death, Ibn Abbas said that the perpetrators must be pushed from the highest structure in the land. (refer Fiqhusunna volume 2 page 387)

The Hadith is clear about this issue, apart from the Hadith that states that both parties must be killed it also states that a Muslim man is not even permitted to sodomise a woman, for sodomy is sinful.

Another important aspect is that in Islam, sex is only permissible within the bounds of marriage, refer the verse about chastity Sura 23; verse 7, sex is only permitted with one's spouse or in the case of a man, his spouse or what his right hand possesses of female concubines, anything beyond that is referred to as transgression.

Allah also says:

"... Today I have perfected for you your religion and completed my blessing over you and given you Islam as your religion ...". Sura 5; verse 3

To be perfected and completed means that we have been given guidance for every aspect of our lives. The prophet peace and blessings upon him never conducted a gay wedding ceremony, in fact he said, kill the doer and the one to whom it is being done. So, if sex in Islam can only take place within marriage and homosexuals can never be married, this means that Islam bans acts of male to male sodomy.

As these people cannot be married, how do they propose to have sex? Such sex can only take place without marriage, any extra marital sex is subject to the punishment of 100 stripes for each offence for a single person or stoning to death for a married person.

However, the Ahadith narrated above are clear, both the doer and the person to whom it is being done must be killed, the only difference in opinion is with respect to the manner of killing, whether this should be by burning, or by pushing from a height and then stoning to death.

Some, as if to have a dig at Islam, take issue with the managed and controlled polygyny that Islam permits, in fact, polygyny is a wholesome progression for society as it guarantees adequate matrimonial security and gratification, spiritually, emotionally and physically for all the women in society, whereas homosexuality is mere depraved carnal pursuit with no care for anything other than the perverted "homosexual's" own obstinacy and illicit abnormal gratification.

The homosexual lobby also tries to explain their perversion by reference to genes and hormones. Yet they could only be referring to psychological factors, genes and hormones have not turned an anus into a vagina and never will. Some American studies have found that Americans who consume large quantities of meat that has been fed with chemicals and hormones and other fattening substances are likely to have higher incidences of homosexuality. However, let us examine it from a purely intellectual aspect.

If we deal with the issue through logic

Homosexuality is not logical

The anus is an outlet not an inlet! It is designed to excrete and not to take-in! In fact any large object that is inserted without artificial or external lubrication will cause damage to the outer ring or anus and to the rectal cavity, there will be tearing and bleeding, irrespective how aroused the recipient male or female happens to be at the time. Further the repeated action of shoving and withdrawing will create much more dry friction and lead to much tissue damage. However, when it comes to natural intercourse, in all cases, unless the woman has a condition, the woman with little foreplay will produce enough lubricants to ensure the normal sexual penetration will not cause any tissue damage (with the exception of breaking the hymen in the case of a virgin or a woman whose hymen was surgically restored).

The reality is, in most cases, they do use some form of lubricant, this in itself is an admission that the act is unnatural.

So, from the onset, we know that the insertion of a foreign body into the anus without lubrication will cause tissue damage and is most likely to result in bleeding and infection. Further the chemical properties of human semen tend to make it somewhat abrasive from a layman's (excuse the pun. it is completely unintended) perspective. You would also be able to describe better than me the effect of smearing an abrasive substance over cuts and abrasions. I would recommend a study on the effect of the little sperms on cuts and abrasions, our layman's knowledge indicates that this is one of the quickest way for the spread of infectious diseases. One should also consider the effect of applying compressed faeces on cuts and abrasions.

Hence, we have the AIDS council encouraging the use of condoms. You may find that gays, even in monogomous relationships, and these are not the norm, will have to frequently use condoms when they choose to engage in their perverse sodomy, otherwise the risk is as you know painfully deadly.

This risk is not present with normal vaginal intercourse that takes place between a male husband and a female wife.

I have so far only dealt with the damage that is done to the sodomised person.

Let us examine the perpetrator of the perverse penetration. What will happen to the male penis when it is repeatedly rubbed into a tight hole that is not lubricated? You know that me penis will also have tissue damage and several layers of skin will be gone. As a male, you know that the skin on the most sensitive part has a particular sensitivity to touch. Tissue damage will occur to the penis unless sufficient lubrication is applied.

What I was trying to prove above is that a person has to resort to external or unnatural means to minimise tissue damage in the case of sodomy. What I hoped in doing this is to prove that the penis is not created or designed to be inserted into an anus and similarly, an anus is not meant to receive a penis.

The second important issue that relates to sex is the gratification or climax that the act itself is meant to give to the two parties.

We know that the penis is a sexual organ that is subject to arousal and that rubbing against this organ will lead to a climax or ejaculation. However, neither the anus nor the rectum can be described as sexual organs, they both lack the necessities that you find inside a woman's vulva which create the excitement or enjoyment.

Having said this, some men have been known to also ejaculate when penetrated. This ejaculation is of two types. Either psychological or physical, but in both cases, it is not natural and is not the same as a climax by the person doing the penetration or in the case of a woman who is engaging in sexual intercourse.

Homosexuality is psychological not physical!

As you would know from your studies, the insertion of a penile sized object into the rectum will lead to pressure on a number of glands, particularly the prostrate gland, and the seminal vesicles leading to a squeezing out of the seminal fluids rather than a proper ejaculation. This has been observed in cases of torture through the insertion of foreign objects into a subject's rectum.

The cases where it is psychological should be self explanatory. However, a brief explanation at this point may ensure that any potential ambiguity is minimised. Where a person convinces himself that a particular act is gratifying, or a particular behaviour is desirable, then anything in that field short of that act will be felt lacking. For example, if we take the case of a man who desires to engage in sexual intercourse with a woman, we find that this man will be ungratified or unfulfilled and the desire will remain there until it materialises. Masturbation will not remove the desire, neither will oral sex, they will only increase it. In this case, the desire is not just mental, it is also physical because of the nature of the vagina and the nature of the reaction of the woman in intercourse. It will not be sufficient to go through the seminal discharge to remove the desire despite the fact that the desire may have been instigated by a physical drive. However, as the drive was unfulfilled and the desire for the woman came, the gratification will only be achieved when this intercourse takes place. The situation with a homosexual is somewhat different, I purposely used the example of a heterosexual to illustrate a point in relation to the effect of mutual gratification. However, in the case of a "homosexual", if he convinces himself that he is a strict homosexual, then true gratification through normal ejaculation that results in sexual intercourse with a woman will not soothe his mental condition. The only thing that will remove the mental confusion for this person would be for him to realise that what he wants is wrong. Natural sex will remove the drive, however, it will not pacify his mind unless he acknowledges that his desire for perversion is unacceptable.

On the physical side, it suffices to say that the anus is not equipped with the necessary qualities to make it a sexual organ. It is only its proximity to the organs of reproduction that allows its inclusion in the erogenous zone. Any arousal caused by touching the anus usually results from a feeling of adventure and anticipation with fear, again, this is psychological and should not be allowed to regress into sodomy. In both cases, that is, in both heterosexual sex and homosexual sex, the mouth is also used, therefore, the arousal in the case of the person using the mouth is only psychological as it creates an expectation of penetration of the vagina, the only sexual satisfaction comes to the penis that is being treated orally and not to the mouth. So, through its use, the mouth is transformed into a sexual organ, however, the mouth is not a sexual organ per se.

The hand is also used in like manner at times, but, it also is not a sexual organ, that is, it is not an organ that brings sexual satisfaction to one of the parties by itself, unless it be a person masturbating with his or her own hand.

Homosexual relationships

How do homosexual relationships develop? Generally, the recipient may be convinced or forced at a young age, when he is weak and impressionable. He may end up sodomising others later in life, he may end up offering himself for sodomy or he may have difficulty with sex altogether. However, this is an extension of the first act of perversion. A person may also be influenced into homosexuality by a trusted friend, however, this also does not make the act natural. There are those who now, with the popularisation of homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle, will experiment with it because of troubles they had in their heterosexual relationships. The may feel that the trouble or incompatibility of their partner in those relationships is attributable to their own sexuality. This is also a strange claim, because people admit incompatibility on other issues and may break friendships for this incompatibility, however, they will also develop other friendships. Problem relationships in nature are not a statement of the sexuality of the individuals and should not be treated in this manner.

I find it preposterous to suggest that a male who has not been corrupted at a young age. would go around saying that he can only obtain sexual gratification by being sodomised. Males who are being sodomised can only obtain sexual gratification through additional acts that involve a caressing of their penis.

Homosexuality, like other crimes starts with a whim, crimes of theft are punishable because the damage is easily discemable, the same applies for other crimes of violence. Crimes like homosexuality and promiscuity are not as easily discernable for the irreligious because they do not see the real effects of these crimes on society and generally their effects are not in sufficient proximity to the crime itself. Whilst the argument that a society of homosexuals will not procreate may be one end of the spectrum, the real argument is that sex as a drive is only present to encourage procreation, the pleasures that are associated with it are similar though are different in sensation to the pleasures associated with eating or drinking.

Whilst gratification is an acknowledged effect of the uses of the sexual organs, it is not the reason that these organs are in place. These types of organs exist, not just in humans, but in animals and in vegetation in order to preserve the species. Using these organs in acts of sodomy or same sex relationships is a misuse or an abuse of these organs and only leads to an increase in social evils.

Homosexuality and animals

If sheep were to claim that they are homosexual, human society would not allow them to do so, because this would lead to the sheep not breeding. True that food animals are in general produced through artificial insemination, however, if this was not the case. society will not permit animals to be homosexuals because they see the dangers to their material interests. Yet male dogs will engage in homosexual acts, but bring a bitch on heat and they will leave each other and compete for her pleasure. The same with bulls, put a group of young bulls in a pen together and they will try and mount their nearest bovine friend, however, when cows are present, his preference will always change to the natural practice. Their practice of same sex perversion is only done to gain relief from seminal build up and to gain some gratification. Yet the human being is supposed to be more civilised than that.

We have seen that in the case of animals being artificially inseminated, certain types of animals are exposed to certain scents before the insemination in order to increase the chance of conception. In all cases, the scent that is used is one that is obtained from the male of the species or resembles in chemical composition the same scent that is produced by the male of the species. Comparing with human same sex relationships, there is no existence of a scent of the opposite sex, this scent is normally produced when the partners are aroused. Therefore, the natural fulfillment will never be achieved, the perverted acts will never completely fulfil the sexual drive.

Sex is meant to be a private activity

Sex amongst humans is by its nature meant to be a private affair, yet homosexuals tend to promote their perversion and even in free licentious Western society they want to force us to believe that they are incapable of heterosexual sex because of a hormone imbalance or a perverted predisposition. The natural extension of this argument is that all crime results from a sort of hormone imbalance, so why prosecute other crimes and acquiesce to this ugliest form of perversion. The perpetrator of sodomy cannot say that he can only be gratified by men, for a female anus is little different to a male anus. What this man is saying is that he must degrade and humiliate another man by emasculating him and using him in a manner that does not fit with his gender, simultaneously, this man is saying that women are not fit for their main biological purpose (though not their only purpose in life, for their role in life is not only a sexual one), what is more, he is also trying to say that the other man submits to this treatment willingly. They extend their argument to try to convince us that those sodomised men who have committed suicide as a result of their inability to cope with the humiliation only did so because of society's expectations.

Sex needs a willing partner

Whether the person claims to be homosexual or not, sex can legally only be performed with a willing partner, unlike food, a person will not die without sex, deprivation may lead to deviation, but it will not lead to death. So, without a willing partner, a person who claims to be homosexual may be unable to have sex at all at any stage of his life, even if he lives to be a hundred. Therefore, this person who claims to be homosexual, and abides by the law and lives his life without sex in reality, has no need to express any of this deviant "sexuality". The mere fact that a man has not come in contact with a woman who is sufficiently attractive to him does not make him a blatant homosexual. Similarly, the fact that the man may have feelings for another man does not mean that this man must extend these feelings into acts of sodomy. Loving a fellow male does not necessitate that one party must make himself available for penetration, neither does it necessitate for the other party to penetrate the first.

Perversion becomes like any addiction

It is curious how addictions are acknowledged with respect to drugs and other addictive substances and not when it comes to issues like perversion. When a person is introduced to drugs and this person continues to take these until an addiction is developed, this addiction is treated as it is recognised that drugs are harmful. It is not argued that the person takes drugs or becomes addicted to these because of a hormone imbalance or a natural predisposition to drugs. The same applies to perversion, when a person engages in deviant acts, he becomes addicted to perversion, we see several phenomena amongst homosexuals. There are those who promote change in their physiology by undergoing hormone treatment so that their entire body begins to take the shape and form of the sexual role which they choose to adopt. The other type just rebels against nature and continues to engage in their activities without hormone treatment.

Homosexuality, hormone treatment and sex change

Those who undertake hormone treatment may go further and at one stage or another in their lives undergo a sex change operation. In this regard, I wish to extend the argument, the partner of the person on hormone treatment is a person who claims to be naturally predisposed to homosexuality, yet when the partner takes hormone treatment and the body starts to take on the same qualities as those of the opposite sex, the relationship is not threatened. In fact, the phenomenon that we observe in such relationships is that when a person is treated sexually as belonging to a particular sex, and the person accepts this role, the hormone treatment is taken to add to the mental process, so first they are convinced and then they make the change. If the operation takes place and the person does change sex, the partner of this person finds himself or herself forced to engage in sexual conduct with a person who is physically of the opposite sex. So you will have a case where a homosexual relationship changes into a heterosexual relationship without changing the individuals, and lesbians or sodomites change into heterosexuals. They still achieve gratification, the difference is that one of them could not cope with acting out a role that is different to their sex so they changed their sex surgically, so the other person, the one who does not change sex ends up engaging in sexual conduct with the opposite sex even though prior to the operation, this person claimed that he or she was not aroused by the opposite sex.

As for those homosexuals who do not take hormone treatment and do not change their sex, their situation is one where they either have not come to terms as to which role they wish to play, so they lead a life of confusion or obstinacy or they may be bisexual. It is rare for those who claim to be strictly homosexuals to switch between roles, this is distinct from people who engage in bisexual conduct. In both cases it is perversion, and the point that I wish to make is that the conduct of these people just becomes more and more perversely demanding. The constant chaffing that occurs with male homosexuals leads to reduced sensitivity of the organs and increased difficulty to find gratification, those who switch roles only do so because they reach a stage where penetrating others no longer provides any sense of gratification, they have to create a changed scenario, they will have to make another quirk in their perversion, otherwise, arousal becomes very difficult and a gratifying climax becomes a virtual impossibility. Therefore in their increasing need for perversion, they may switch into recipients and remain in that role, not for a personal climax, but for mental satisfaction as gratification through satisfactory ejaculation is no longer achievable. So as recipients, they may end up ejaculating through the pressure that the intruding penis places on their prostate and other glands.

Whether they change their sex or not, those who play the part of the female in a homosexual relationship will generally go through much work to maintain an attractive (feminine) appearance. They may workout regularly in order to keep an attractive shape, they may shave not only their legs, but also wax their entire bodies. They may even feel that they need to regularly apply massage oils to reduce the natural defences of the particular orifice. In any event, it is a real chore in order to comfortably fit into an unnatural role. To add to the attraction, these people tend to walk like females, they keep their faces shaved and they will tend to wear feminine perfumes. Undergoing all these deceptive changes to their bodies, in some cases, their appearance may not be distinguishable from that of a woman without close inspection. This deception in itself may fool some other members of the community, m some cases, without the moral reservations, a male who discovers that the woman he has been staring at is actually a man may in some circumstances question his own sexuality or inclination. We have seen cases where a man who is not homosexual pursue a same sex attraction, this usually, like the case of young bulls in a pen, takes place in prisons and usually the victim is sodomised by force. However, this can also happen outside of prisons and there are cases where this attraction leads to murder as in the recent case of a man who murdered a five year old girl in order to keep her quite whilst he tried to find her pre-teen brother in the house so that he can rape him.

Lesbianism is little different to shared masturbation

The case of lesbians is slightly different, without facial hair, the vaginal discharges which vary in their acidity damage facial tissue in lesbian oral sex. If a woman resorts to artificially penetrating another woman's vagina, then the question becomes one of trying to establish if there is a difference between that penetration and a penal penetration, she claims that she cannot be aroused by a man, yet she needs to be penetrated to increase her gratification, a real dilemma arises with respect to the credibility of her claim in this regard. Any penetration of the vagina or anus of a woman necessitates the posing of such a question. A woman may suggest that she prefers other women because she cannot handle the demands of a man, or she fears being beaten etc. This does not make her a lesbian, it only makes her a person who is seeking sexual gratification through unnatural means because she fears not the sex itself but the man behind it. We know that any slight degree of foreplay can arouse a woman to reach a climax, a woman does not need to be penetrated to have an orgasm. Penetration only adds to the gratification and the excitement, without it, she feels unfulfilled (please excuse the pun), even if penetrated, a seminal discharge inside her will boost the sensation and heighten the excitement to greater levels of ecstasy. Thus, for a woman, whilst she may climax very easily, true gratification comes with penetration, heightened gratification comes with both penetration and ejaculation. There is no form of stimuli or penetration that a woman may do to another woman that cannot be done by a man to a woman, the difference is that natural organs will be used for their natural functions. Lesbianism is a mental fear and not a natural relationship. It is little different to shared masturbation. In the case where one of the ladies changes sex, then the issues discussed above will apply.

Love and attraction

I would like to take you back to the issue of attraction and to the love that may develop from this attraction. Before we take the case of perverted relationships, let us examine the case of friendship and love amongst heterosexuals. A person living a strict heterosexual life, for whatever reason will still develop strong filial love for people of the same sex, they may hug and kiss each other every time they greet one another, they may just shake hands. They may love each other to an extent that they will make great sacrifices for each other, yet, as strict heterosexuals, even if a homosexual thought was to enter into their minds, they would strive against it and take precautions and force this thought out and away. A bisexual or homosexual may interpret these feelings as latent natural homosexuality that is suppressed by oppressive environmental conditioning or religious or social pressures. Yet, if a homosexual was finding inclinations towards a member of the opposite sex, this is never likely to be interpreted as his true nature coming out, other homosexuals will treat it as their friend succumbing to pressures from family or religion.

It is natural for a person to be attracted to beauty in any of its relevant manifestations. What is beautiful to one person is not necessarily beautiful to another, so the relevant manifestation is subjective to the individuals concerned. Impressions that are left on an individual may lead to feelings of respect, love and admiration or hatred and detestation or envy and grudge. Emotional extremes develop some form of action and do not remain static. The most relevant emotions in our situation are those relating to respect, love and admiration. When these emotions develop in a person who is regularly in close proximity with his object of admiration, the person, if perverted may carry them further into sexual submission to the object of his admiration. If not perverted, these feelings may be developed into loyalty, increased respect and estimation and a filial bond.

Perverted people are predators

Perverted people will prowl for a prey, each perverted person will search for what appeals to him. I do not wish to delve into the issue of those who go out seeking prostitutes of the same or the opposite sex, nor those who go to homosexual night clubs or known homosexual handouts in order to find same sex temporary or permanent partners. I am trying to tackle the issue of when a person actually decides that he wants to be inclined towards homosexual perversion. It is not common that a person goes and experiments with both to see which is more enjoyable, to do so, a male would have to go through three or four different experiments to determine which role best suits him. To follow this line. a person will have to say to himself: "I have not determined my inclinations in either direction yet, so, today, I am going to find a really attractive woman, have natural and unnatural sex with her and see which one I prefer most." Then, on another occasion, all conditions being the same, he says, that on this day, he must go and find a man and have, well, in this case, it would all be unnatural, so, he would either do or be done, and on the third occasion, he would take these pursuits will need to be filled with other activities that are physically removed from the previous environment. The person will also need to ensure that he will keep away from the perverted environment until he is completely reformed.

Religion puts guidelines and limits and says that these limits belong to God. so they should not be breached, apart from carrying a penalty, such breaches are damaging to society, so it is in the interest of society in its entirety to introduce checks to ensure that these limits are not breached. All the divinely set limits are there for a reason and as a protection against a greater evil. Allah says in the Quran that He has prohibited the Fawahish (Sura 7; verse 33), that is, the ugly, shameful, evil and destructive acts. Homosexuality is also described as Fahisha (the singular form offawahish) (Sura 7; verse 80).

Many whims and desires come through a person's mind every day. Desires increase with exposure to "objects of desire". For example, when one sees a beautiful car, automatically a desire to possess this begins to develop. It is only a review of the facts surrounding this desire, like can I afford it? Will it have a high petrol consumption? Will it fulfil my needs? An intelligent person will weigh the pros and cons and decide. A person who may not be able to afford the object of his desire may go and steal it, thus transgressing a limit that is set by both God and society.

A person may see a beautiful rose in somebody's garden, he may ask the owner if can have it, he may admire from a distance, or he may just take it. If he just takes it, again, he is breaching a limit that is set by both God and society. A person may see a beautiful item of clothing, he will again weigh the pros and cons relating to affordability and functionality and determine whether it is suitable. If this item of clothing is not in a shop but is worn by another person, it would be preposterous for him to go and demand to have it, for there is a social convention that must be respected.

In all these cases, the desire or the whim were there, however, the person is forced to observe his limit.

Another slightly more difficult case is also possible, a person may desire a certain job, irrespective of the pros and cons, or even if he realises that the job is beyond his abilities, he embarks on this job. It is natural that he will fail because he has gone out to do something that contradicts the conventions. That is, he is trying to do something that is beyond his abilities, so failure is inevitable sooner or later.

A comparison with other crimes whose effects are not immediate

After centuries of waste dumping and unnatural deforestation, the "civilised" countries determined that pollution and deforestation are damaging to the environment. They are now attempting to treat their past transgressions against nature, of course with the different lobbies, despite knowing that pollution and deforestation are damaging, their governments will allow pollution and deforestation to continue if the lobby is strong enough, yet they see the danger and the threat, but they will only respond to the danger when the other lobby is sufficiently strong. The other lobby draws its strength through promoting their views and educating people, they are helped by the fact that they can demonstrate the veracity of their claims. Having made some progress, the environmental lobby was able to bring in some controls to reduce pollution and manage deforestation, not enough controls and not enough management, however, the process is in place. Only God knows how long before the damage that was previously done will begin to reverse?

whatever role he did not try previously. Then he would sit and evaluate all the experiences and determine which is the most gratifying. If still uncertain, he would repeat all the above experiments with different partners.

As I said, although it may happen, this is uncommon. Such a suggest pretends to treat people like mechanical beings and ignores emotions as well as misinterprets these emotions. When emotions and attractions are taken into consideration, depending on morality or conditioning, a person is likely to pursue the first attraction. With society as it is today, there is a strong competition amongst people in general to be attractive or more attractive. It is not abnormal for a person to be attracted to many people. It is only morality and decency that will help safeguard a person from the problems of promiscuity and the pursuance of unnatural relationships.

It is ridiculous to suggest, (or at the least, it would contradict the arguments of a homosexual) conscious experimentation determines sexual inclination. When it comes to homosexuality, the main argument that they are trying to force upon the rest of society is that their perversion is a natural hormonal predisposition. Therefore, if a natural relationship develops with a female, this would be a complete sexual failure and they would not be able to perform in any way shape or form, they would not get an erection, nor would they ejaculate and they feel no arousal whatsoever.

Failing with the opposite sex, this person theoretically finds himself totally aroused when he is near members of the same sex so he wants to engage in sexual conduct with the same sex. He is not aroused with the opposite sex, he is only aroused by the same sex (or so he claims), the next question is, which role does he wish to take? Whether he takes the role of the doer or the done, he will be subjecting himself to the physical dangers that I mentioned early on in this thesis, as such arousal is not meant to be fulfilled, but rather, and is meant to be treated. Extending this unreal theoretical situation, what would happen to this person if he does not realise his perversion? Many people go through life unable to engage in any sexual activity, this did not kill them, some spend so much time absorbed in other pursuits that they do not give any time to their sexuality.

Another situation arises with respect to a person who receives his first suggestive advances from a member of the same sex. Not having been exposed to these issues, the mere suggestion of these activities get the mind thinking. If the person has no reservations about the issue, he may be led to experiment, and if this is his only experience with sex then he may feel that it is natural.

The situation dealt with in the preceding two paragraphs is a wild hypothetical that is very unlikely to happen, unless it be in a case where an adult is molesting a child. When it comes to sex, there are chemicals at play, it is not mere man's body in the presence of a woman's body, there are other factors that provide for an exciting and complete arousal and fulfillment.

Treating perversion

Again, the issue with respect to those who claim to be homosexual, once they begin to engage in their perversion on a regular basis, because it is sinful and evil, it becomes addictive and they will have difficulty to quickly adjust to normal life. Like any other sin or crime, it uses up portions of their time, effort and mental processes, to treat it, one has to find a substitute activity to fill their time, take their effort and engage fruitfully their mental processes. I have used the term sin and evil though I have not really gone into religion since I started dealing with the logical side, as the religious position is clear. The religious treatment of such perversion, in a situation like the world find itself in today, where religious law cannot be applied, is one that begins by an admission of the pervert that what he is engaging in is wrong. After the admission comes a willingness to change and to accept the treatment which would begin with remembering God and His Glory and Power. Then, the person must regularly pray for forgiveness, after this, the time that this person used to invest into A similar situation arises with benign diseases. When cancer starts, it is not deadly, it only becomes deadly if it is allowed to continue to spread, tf it is not diagnosed as a cancer, it will continue until it devastates the entire body, it may reach a stage where it becomes untreatable.

The situation with homosexuality and perversion is not much different to the above. Environmental crimes were not recognised as crimes until their effects were seen on the oceans, the rivers, the forests and the atmosphere. The effects of homosexuality are being ignored because of the power of the homosexual lobby. Due to the nature of the crime, even the spread of AIDS was not sufficient to deter people from it, neither was it enough to accept that homosexuality is wrong. Instead, they try to find anything else to attribute the AIDS virus to, and they try to find ways to engage in sodomy with a reduced risk of contracting the deadly virus. Whatever they wish to attribute the disease to, they will not advise monogomous, uninfected males to sodomise each other without condoms. Not because they fear promiscuity with other males who may be infected, but because they know that the activity itself will lead to disease. Like those who continued to rape the environment for so long, they will only be stopped when other dangers to society become salient and a sufficiently powerful lobby begins working to combat this crime. Regardless of the power of this lobby, the pro- homosexual lobby cannot be stopped until society stands firm and points to them through logic that we do not accept their arguments. At such a stage, a real process to treat all the malignant cases of same sex perversion and a process of protecting the rest of society from this transgression against nature can begin.

In the field of human personal sexual conduct, we are being told by the homosexual lobby to disregard all the issues mentioned in this thesis. They demand that we ignore the functionality of organs, the purpose of creation, the roles of the different sexes, the psychology of sex, the nature of human relations and the short and long term damage to society and we must without any argument be forced to accept their representations. Their's is not a plausible argument. The presence of excess genes of an opposing sex in a person does not change the function of his or her body. If these genes or hormones were meant to be dominant in reality, why did they not influence the development of the organs into being of the so called dominant sex? As you can see, it is an unacceptable argument to impose on the rest of humanity. It is the argument of a lobby who cannot justify its perversion through logic, so they try to resort to unnatural arguments to impose this argument on the rest of us.

K. Trad

LINKS to articles, audio, related web pages:

Why 'questioning secularism' destroys religious freedom - by Bronwyn Winter, 2 May 2008, ON LINE opinion




HOMOPHOBIA PART 4b - Forum at UWS Bankstown
HOMOPHOBIA PART 4c - Homophobia and University Horrors
HOMOPHOBIA PART 5a - Same Sex Marriage Issues Part 1
HOMOPHOBIA PART 5b - Same Sex Marriage Issues Part 2
HOMOPHOBIA PART 5c - Same Sex Marriage Issues Part 3
HOMOPHOBIA PART 5d - Same Sex Marriage Issues Part 4
HOMOPHOBIA PART 6a - GLTH Suicide Part 1
HOMOPHOBIA PART 6b - GLTH Suicide Part 2
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - PREFACE
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - INTRODUCTION
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - CHAPTER 1 - AUSTRALIAN 1971-1980
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - CHAPTER 2 - AUSTRALIAN 1981-1990
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - CHAPTER 3 - AUSTRALIAN 1991-2000
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - CHAPTER 4 - AUSTRALIAN 2001-2010
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - CHAPTER 5 - AUSTRALIAN 2011-2020
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - INTERNATIONAL - Part - 1 A to I
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - INTERNATIONAL - Part 2 - J to S
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - INTERNATIONAL - Part 3 - T to Z
Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Hate Crimes - BIBLIOGRAPHY AND RECOMMENDED READING LIST




Mannie's blogs may be accessed by clicking on to the following links:

MannieBlog (from 1 August 2003 to 31 December 2005)

Activist Kicks Backs - Blognow archive re-housed - 2005-2009

RED JOS BLOGSPOT (from January 2009 onwards)

This page updated 25 APRIL 2012 and again on 17 NOVEMBER 2016

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